Let Me Tell You This About That

Jay Davidson-The Healing Place-The Road to Recovery

• Hess and Delbert • Season 1 • Episode 44

Share episode

Send us a text

Jay Davidson-The Miracle on Market Street-The road to Recovery

Hess and Delbert welcome Jay Davidson, the man that made the Healing Place Recovery what it is today.  He has been at the Healing Place for 34 years, from its start as the Father Morgan Homeless shelter to now a 500 bed campus for men and 250 campus for women.  They boast a 65% success rate in recovery-taking the person through detox, and 148 days later to the place of continuance of care, or some call after care.  85% of the 125 employees are alumnae of the program.  Recovery is not just from the drug or substance, but psychological, social, mental, and spiritual.   A 100 bed program has begun in Campbelllsville Ky.  This model has been studied by recovery experts from all over the world.  Listen in as Jay explains how it has evolved and become the success it is today.

Order Jay's Book Miracle on Market: Where hope is Found and Change Happens

https://www.amazon.com/Miracle-Market-Where-Change-Happens/dp/1953655785


I am still collecting for José's cancer treatments. We are awaiting the next CT Scans that will tell you where he is after his second round of treatments. Thank you for your continued support!
https://gofund.me/e6f61999

In addition to being a podcast host, Hess is also an LCSW--if you'd like to learn more about her work as a therapist, check it out at www.jessicabollinger.com

One of her mission's is for all of our lights to shine--when we see each other and allow ourself to be seen--and we can say to the person in front of us, There You Are! the world will be an amazing place!

Delbert is a top realtor in Louisville, KY, and you can find her at Kentucky Select Properties She will help you find your home, and also help you get the most equity when you sell your house.

Her philanthropic work to continue her sister Carole and niece Meghan is Carole's Kitchen. Blessings in a Backpack helps feed the many hungry students in our schools. The instagram account is: https://www.instagram.com/caroleskitchen.nonprofit?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet&igsh=ZDNlZDc0MzIxNw==




...

Hess:

Hey, welcome to our Sunday morning chat. This is Hess. I'm in Lexington, Kentucky, sitting in the white chair looking out the window at the farm.

Delbert:

Hey, good morning everybody. This is Delbert. As always. I'm coming to you live from the big green couch in Louisville, Kentucky. It is another beautiful day

Hess:

Yeah. And in our last podcast folks, we talked about the night before, I had attended the the Freedom Dinner of that the healing Place puts on. And it was centered around honoring Jay Davidson, who has made the healing place in Louisville, the Recovery Center there in Louisville. And now they're also in Campbellsville, the Healing Place, what it is today. And Delbert and I are lucky to have on our guest today. Jay Davidson. Jay, thank you for coming to me tell you this about that. So tell us a little bit about you and how you got to the Healing Place.

Jay Davidson:

Hessan thank you for this opportunity. I really appreciate it. I came to the healing place by, by way of God's plan. I had no intention of getting involved with that. Homeless, homelessness. And the short story is after retiring from the army, knocking around for five years to find a my niche. I ended up going back to school and getting my ma master's in social work with, on a clinical per track, because I wanted to be a psychotherapist for veterans and their related families and doing counseling in Radcliffe, in Elizabethtown, Kentucky. However, I had to pay my back some tuition that I used for school. I needed a job. And the first job offer I got was to go to help these doctors who were operating an overnight shelter for homeless men. And they looked at my resume, figured that with my military experience, I could probably run a shelter. Wasn't too concerned about what I do with my social work degree, but they hired me to. Run the homeless shelter. The short of it is that after I got there, I realized that the staff, the resident staff there really needed to go. They did not have the best interests of the men at heart, so I fired'em all and spent the next two weeks there in the shelter. Connecting with the, and really getting to know them, getting to know them by first name. I did have to keep three paid cooks because we still needed to get food cooked. But aside from the food preparation, I pretty well pretty much did everything else. During that process, I realized that of the 80 men checking in every night, a good 80% of them are alcoholics or addicts. I was eight years sober at the time and realized that if they were never gonna be able to get off the street if they didn't learn how to get, if they didn't get sober. And that, that began to really weigh on my heart, knowing that we needed to do something different. Whatever was available in 1991 out in the Louisville community wasn't working for them. And so we really needed to do something different and a new approach, or a different approach, but as it works out, I really didn't know what to do. I had no experience on program development. I just had my own 12 step experience. It was an education that I learned by the men teaching me what they needed, and that's kinda how it got started.

Hess:

So almost what I'm hearing you say, it was like a young you had a young mind and an open mind to try to learn what you needed to learn to be able

Jay Davidson:

That's very polite. It was an empty mind that knew nothing

Hess:

yeah. Yeah. So then you began and say more about like how it progressed and how it became, what it is today.

Jay Davidson:

It started with the we all already had the overnight shelter that was a wet shelter. In other words, they you could come in under the influence of drugs and alcohol. And I was, we were able to set up a system of accountability where they, that overnight guests and they are guests were responsible for maintaining the safety and security of the shelter. And so with that, we needed an outreach to the street for that, a alcoholic or addict that wanted to detox, so to speak. So the old buildings that 1017, 1019 West market became what we called a sobering up center, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, where men under the influence could come in and safely detox. It was a non-medical detox, meaning they would be allowed to cold Turkey detox off of all their alcohol and drugs. The only ones that weren't allowed to do that were anyone coming in on benzodiazepines, Xanax, out, Valium, Librium, that sort of thing. We would send them to the hospital for a medical detoxification, by and large. Heroin crack meth. Alcohol, you name it, can pretty much safely detox without fear of fatality. So now we had two outreaches. We had to outreach to the street through the overnight shelter. We had an outreach through the detox through the men on the street. There were still under the influence. And so now we needed to start a recovery program. Jes s you appreciate this my social work degree. And the theory was, is that you can't mix drinking with non-drinking or using with non-using because that would create all kinds of relapsed potential and all kinds of problems and so forth. So you really need to do a drug and alcohol free program. This is October. 1991 or 92. And so I decide on Monday, let's make this shelter, alcohol and drug free for the beginning of a recovery program. So I did check in Monday night and I checked in 80 men. As they checked in, I did the sniff test, and if they smell like alcohol, I said, look man I know what you're struggling with, but this is gonna be an alcohol and drug free program for for recovery. So if you come in under the influence, we won't be able to check you in. And everybody nodded their head and said, yes, okay, fine. Tuesday I get ready to check in the 80 men and only 50 are there. I say where are the other 30? I said you said they smell like alcohol, don't bother coming, and they are trying to get into the other four shelters. So I said, fine. That night I got phone calls from every night manager all four shelters saying, what in the hell's going on down at the Morgan Center? These men said you kicked them out and they can't get back in. And I said we're just trying to start a recovery program. I thought that, I thought it was over with, okay, Wednesday morning at 9:30 in the morning out on Market Street, there are guys walking up and down the sidewalk with placards saying, Doctors shelters Rules Unfair. Shut out the homeless. I even had men standing in the streets passing out, stopping cars and passing out hand bills. You can imagine by 10 30 I had all four TV stations and both newspapers down here, down at the Morgan Center saying, what's going on? Your doctors? Your doctors are kicking everybody out of the shelter. And I said we're just trying to start a recovery program to help them learn how to get deal with their addiction. Dr. Ward was a little bit concerned about publicity and negative publicity as were the other 14 doctors on the board. So they had an emergency meeting of the board of directors. There was nine members on the board, and they met that following Thursday afternoon, Thursday evening, actually there were 18. 18 people showed up for that board meeting. They argued for hours back and forth, wet versus dry, dry versus wet. How are we gonna do it? Finally, Dr. Ward took a vote, nine voted wet and nine voted dry. I said, oh my gosh, I have to do my military tap dance to figure out how to answer this challenge. So I said, maybe we could do both. I said how? How are you gonna do that? I said I don't know. I guess we probably just have to start and hire some more staff so I can, so that we can do both. And they said, okay, how much money will you not need? And I said I don't know. I did the swag, this silly wild ass guess. And I said, thousand dollars ought to be able to get us started. They went out and got that a hundred thousand dollars. The building that Jesse Bollinger had built was a two two story, 24,000 square foot facility. 12,000 square feet on each floor. So it turned out, and on the first floor was the kitchen, the dining room offices and the backside had 40 beds. And then on top floor there were another 40 beds up on the second floor. So it became the top floor, became the wet overnight shelter for the overnight men who still wanted to stay on the recovery program. And the bottom floor became alcohol and drug free in the beginning of the recovery program. And that was in November. In November of 92. By January of 93 we started officially a 12 step recovery program with 10 men in the program.

Hess:

Got it. Got it.

Delbert:

That's amazing. I was looking at your four steps your website. Was that something that you incorporated after? Those decisions were made to do the wet and dry.

Jay Davidson:

Yes. So I knew I was way outta my element professionally Hess, I was well beyond my scope of practice and skill. So at the time I was under supervision for my licensed clinical social work, and I talked to my, my supervisor and I said, Hey, I need some help. And he said there's this guy down in Shreveport, Louisiana that's been in the treatment field for 25 years. He is seen everything, done everything, looking for a job, but he'd be glad to come up and consult with you for only maybe a month or two because he's gonna be moving on to look for a job. And so I said, okay that's fine with me. I just needed a good a start. So I called him and talked to him and he said I don't know you, you don't like to mix drinking with non-drinking, but I'll come up and take a look. He came up and within one week he fell in love with the whole concept. I. Never left. He, so I hired him and he together, he, it was a yin and yang kind of thing. He was the hard, the structured clinical treatment guy. And I was a soft woozy. Let's take care of him and then love him side. So anytime we had a discussion, we had to find a, meet a middle ground. And through that point.

Delbert:

love.

Jay Davidson:

Through that process we had a basic, very light structure of steps and classes and so forth, but every time the guys in the program found a loophole, we had to plug the loophole. And so when I say the men really designed the mo the program, they really did.

Delbert:

Oh wow. Wow.

Hess:

So say more about what the program went into in those four steps and how people move along from

Jay Davidson:

Yeah.

Hess:

on through.

Jay Davidson:

It's evolved over the years because of the drug. As the drugs have changed, we've, I have seen every drug you can imagine and I can go into a whole dissertation on, it's not a drug problem, it's a behavior problem. But we started,

Hess:

And Hey Jay, let me just say this about that is, is. That's part of our problem. People try to go after the drug instead of go after and help the

Jay Davidson:

Yes, correct.

Hess:

And they, and then I was reading something how the drug ends up morphing into something else because like the the pills morphed in heroin because pills got too expensive. So you gotta treat the person and not the drug. So go

Jay Davidson:

You're exactly right that I can go into a long talk about harm reduction and Suboxone and methadone. But that's another story about how you prolong people on medication for a lifetime and never really deal with the issue of changing their behavior. But anyway, so we start with the non-medical detox and we'll allow them to stay in the detox as long as they physically have to. Sometimes some drugs take longer to detox, some all, basically all the chemicals are out of the body within 72 to 96 hours. But still, there's all the physical aspects of the nervous system disturbances and sleeping disorders and all those kind of things, and just not physically able to really. Be mobile for more than four, two or three hours. So we need to allow them to stay in the detox until they're physically able. It doesn't mean they're just laying around. They're going to classes and they're going to AA meetings and they're going to those kind of support meetings all the time that they're in that non-medical detox. Once they're detoxed, they'll go into what we call our safe haven, which is they're restricted to the property for two weeks, meaning they, they can't leave the property for any reason. While going to classes and meetings and the, it's their opportunity to continue to really, to continue to detox and also start to learn how to build relationships. They're in they're in a four man cubic four man rooms and they start to have to build friend. If you're sleeping with three other guys, at some point you gotta figure out how to work together. So it's great. It's a great opportunity for them to reach out, and start to build relationships. Alcoholics and addicts are unconnected and this whole mo, this is a social model, meaning socially connecting. And so it starts right after detox it starts really in detox, but then they continue that into that that four man room where they start talking to each other. Can you believe it? And start realizing. Learning how they start to become vulnerable and transparent and start sharing feelings and emotions. And they realize that the person hearing that becomes vulnerable and transparent and it starts to share back. And they start continuing to build that relationship and all of a sudden they realize they got somebody they can trust for the first time in their life.

Hess:

Lovely, lovely.

Delbert:

Beautiful. Love

Jay Davidson:

And after the two weeks, then they go into the motivational track where they're guaranteed a bed for a week. And the way they keep that bed is they go to classes during the day and meetings during the day, but those classes and meetings are off campus intentionally. For the men, they actually walk two miles one direction to the 10 o'clock class and then a one o'clock class in the afternoon. In that interim break for two hours, they can go to the other two or three shelters and get one, two, or three free lunches depending how fast they walk. And then come back to the one o'clock class and then trudge back to the main campus at the Healing place to be able to get back in time to attend or participate in a three o'clock class with the men who are further along in the program. So they're still in contemplation, stage of their addiction or their. Journey, but they're gonna be in a group class that afternoon of those who are committed to recovery and they're, all those men in that class are already three or four months clean, working on their recovery journey. So there's constant role modeling happening every day, all day. In that motivational track, they get they have a paper where they get signatures for all their classes and all the meetings they attend that week and all. So the peer mentors who run the program take a look at the each individual sheet. Then they also take into consideration, were they very, did they participate in class? Did they share in class? Did they ask questions? When volunteers were needed to unload a truck, did they volunteer to unload the truck? Those kind of things. And so the client with the most class signatures and the most meeting signatures and is positive in class, gets a bed move. Bed move means he is moving closer to the formal program. It's a tangible reward for hard work. It's not enough to know you're psychologically or mentally changing. You need tangible reward. And that tangible reward is that acknowledgement that you're working hard and so you get to move. If you find that your buddies are moving faster than you are, it's because they're working harder than you. No, no one to blame but yourself. So you can't blame the staff'cause the staff's totally out of it. So that puts the whole burden on the individual and their effort.

Hess:

Got it. And you took me to a floor where there was a big room where there's a group of people that, that The program, monitor each one

Jay Davidson:

yep. Yep.

Hess:

and they're all on a computer. And when those papers of what meetings they went get to, went to, they're all like checked on this big diagram. It's it's like down at NASA in the space launch thing.

Jay Davidson:

That's, you're exactly right. Yes. And that room is, I call that the operation center, the war room, whatever, it's operated by the 20 volunteer peer mentors that keep track of all the men in the program. And they track everything, how many meetings they've been to, whether they have their driver's license or not, whether they have their social security card TB tests whether they've got court appointments, whether they've got. C Ps, everything, CPS appointments, whatever. They track it all and monitor it to make sure that it's one thing for people to have clients to have appointments, but it's another thing for them to be held accountable to make sure they make that appointment, which is un you unique on the street.'cause there's no appointments, there's no calendar, there's no clock, there's no accountability. So I.

Delbert:

Right.

Jay Davidson:

Three months and it in the front part of the motivational track, they're going through the first three steps of Alcoholics Anonymous. And then be before they can go into step four and the formal part of the program, they have to have a sponsor. You won't, you will not be moved into the f for formal part of the program without a sponsor.'cause the whole key to recovery is starting to establish a tradition of having a sponsor in a support group over and above any kind of treatment or therapy or whatever. So they have to have their sponsor. They go into the formal part of the program, and that's steps four through 12 will take another three months to go through those steps. Four through 12. While there, they'll all have a job to do in the shelter. This is an opportunity for them to assume responsibility and then be held accountable for that responsibility, which is unique again for them. Since it's never been that way on the street and many, we have many young people that have never had a job in their life and now they're gonna have to be the kitchen supervisor and run a crew of five and be held accountable for putting out 1500 meals a day. They may have never cooked in their life, but that's okay.'cause somehow or other they're all gonna work together and that food's gonna be cooked and it's gonna come out on time.

Hess:

And I remember in that one section on that one floor, you had all the veterans

Jay Davidson:

Right.

Hess:

When would veterans be all put together? And this is all part of that connection thing because you said people in the military already have that

Jay Davidson:

It's interesting alcoholics and that ex need to talk about the their pain and they need to talk to somebody that can understand their pain. So one alcoholic to another alcoholic. Add to that, being a veteran, it's a double trip'cause veterans need to talk about their military experience and they need to talk to somebody who will understand while at the same time they're alcoholic and addicts. So they need to have that. Alcoholic and addict veterans. So it was ideal, it's an ideal setup for us to integrate the veterans into our structured program. It, early on it was difficult. It couldn't happen from our perspective because the veterans that were referred to us through the VA program all came with a lot of medications and so forth, and it was well beyond our. Scope of practice. So we just couldn't help'em. We did always have a significant percent, about 25% of our entire client base was veteran from the very beginning. And they were just volunteer off the street coming into the program about seven years ago. The VA. Got got smart and started looking at the amount of prescriptions that were being given to a veteran and realized they were doing more harm than good. And so they've tightened up on that. And they also committed to for treatment programs community-based treatment programs they would provide mental health counseling. So at that point, we decided to get back into, and we submitted a grant proposal for a veterans program, and we were awarded. Three veterans programs. One low demand, which is a 20 bed overnight shelter kind of idea for veterans that don't have a mental health or substance abuse issue, but are simply homeless. And we can get them hooked up with a Hud va hud vash section eight vouchers fairly quickly to get them into housing. 52 beds for clinical treatment for veterans, so that have alcoholism or drug addiction and mental illness. Those that's in effect. And we get, vA sends a mental health clinician three days a week to support that program while they take care of the mental health issues. We take care of the recovery, the substance abuse recovery program and provide the housing and so forth. Then we have a a 90 day program for veterans for drug and alcohol recovery. And we now have this year as we've finally gotten three female veterans. So now we have our female veterans are starting to come out of the hiding and start to come un reach out for help, which I.

Hess:

So did you finish the whole motivational track? You said they go on all the way through step

Jay Davidson:

Yes. And that's where you we plug in. You're familiar with the term aftercare. We call it continuing care as opposed to aftercare.'cause re recovery is a continuing process, but it's the same any aftercare that you find anywhere else. We're elevating that program through the Brady center for Productive Life and adding a 12 week curriculum of, resume writing, interview preparation, resource searches for career jobs and matching skills to careers and all that sort of thing

Delbert:

Oh, that's I have a question. Interesting that, your connectors because alcoholics and addicts are not connected. I never realized that. Tell us some of the other things that maybe the public doesn't understand about in treatment and some of the misconceptions.

Jay Davidson:

The first misconception is that it's not a chemical problem. Addiction is a biological, sociological, psychological, and spiritual disease. Starting in the mind. And so if you take each one of those components and really analyze the biological part well, there's obviously the body reaction to the chemical, how the chemical destroys body alcohol, for example, affects every organ in the body. And so the psychological is the. Distorted thinking, the confused thinking caused by the chemical. The sociological is, they're unconnected because of behavior and attitude. Spiritual is, we believe that a spiritual component is being connected to a higher power. The higher power is the only power that can restore us to sanity because we were insane. And on an on a side addiction affects every ethnic sociological and economic soci strata in this world, addiction is worldwide. It's not centered on any particular area. It's also affects every every level of education, every level of it. It does not simply put, it does not discriminate. And we've had high, highly skilled professionals you name it, we've had that have come through the healing place. And so I also like to say that I say that tongue in cheek, being in recovery myself, but I say that everyone out there in the world that's not an alcoholic or addict, I call them earth people. Those Earth people are struggling with shortcomings and character defects when they're white knuckling it, clawing at trying to figure out how to deal with those. And fortunately, those of us in recovery have a program that helps us deal with all of that. We're really actually better off and like luckier than those everyone else out there that's struggling with that, those defects of character because we have a solution.

Hess:

Yeah. My dad always said the best people he is ever known are people in recovery. Because you're working on it, you know that, you know that there's a problem in there and you're working on it where, like you said we're, I'm just not, Delbert, I'm just white knuckling it and being quiet.

Delbert:

And I'm a little more vocal about my white knuckling. I'm just out there, white knuckling it and everybody knows. Okay.

Jay Davidson:

and it's tough. It's tough. And then

Hess:

Yes.

Jay Davidson:

of it, okay, so the other part of it is it's a family disease. It's, and my what I mean that is that the chaotic. The chaos created by the addict destroys the nuclear family. And what happens is the family in this chaos panics and tries to deal with the outbursts, the anger, the fru, the pain, the lies, the all of that go those into that addictive behavior, alcohol's behavior. And they develop inappropriate unhealthy coping mechanisms, and they become as sick as the addict or alcoholic. And so really it, it takes both the addict and the family to go through a change process to be able to come out with healthy coping skills and living skills.

Hess:

And everybody out there, I want you to know that the healing place the campus for men and the campus of women. Now they have a campus in Campbellsville, Kentucky. It's all free for anybody that, that walks in the door and goes through detox. It's totally free and it carries you, carries the person all the way through all of these stages and steps and you have a really high success rate because of that, because they get all of this different stabilization. You're you have a 65% success

Jay Davidson:

Something like that. We had that other school where you are Hess does the outcome study for us and they've done the center for alcohol and Drug. Research at the University of Kentucky does our outcome study. Done it for almost 18 years now, and it's the statistics are consistent every year. Reductions in crime reduction or elimination of drug use connection with family, connection with better jobs. Just the whole wrap series of social determinants that say you're successful are all positive. And we get the, we get those reports every year.

Hess:

So like they were pointing out at the dinner that. That when you, when this person's in recovery and gets to the place where they've become more whole, you're also maybe allowing them to get their kids back. You're improving that whole family. And therefore, if you improve that family and you're improving their children and then their children are growing up with something different you're improving society.

Jay Davidson:

Absolutely. 90% of the women coming through our program have children and 80% of the men have children coming through our program. And of course, society puts the burden on the, or the guilt trip of burden on the mother. To be responsible for the care. But more and more men are stepping up and taking responsibility at about step eight of the 12 steps of the recovery program, having demonstrated a positive recovery journey at that point we worked with CPS and other entities to begin formal reunification with the children. And that's a process that's determined primarily by the children and the ones that are have been disconnected.'cause they're the ones that have to be prepared to wanna re reunite. So it's a process that takes and as you will realize it's all about building a relationship of trust. And when the alcoholic or addict has destroyed that trust for so many years, it's gonna take a while for that trust to be reestablished. And the only way you can reestablish trust with an alcoholic or addict is to observe their demonstrated behavior and observe their demonstrated change in the way they think and the way they act.

Hess:

Over and over I heard the words, believe in the process, believe in the process.

Jay Davidson:

The process

Hess:

Yeah.

Jay Davidson:

and the process is continued change through sharing, role modeling positive changes in working on your character defects and shortcomings. And the process is going through the full 12 steps with there's. Each of those steps has classes and it takes 154 days to go through all the 12 steps. And that's the process. The process really starts from detox and flows all the way through to the end of the point of aftercare continuing care. And the process is the steps that I've just described. And when you don't like it, they say trust the process. Stick around.

Hess:

Yeah. Yeah. Just stick around. Stick around, and also look outside

Jay Davidson:

Yes.

Hess:

I heard that said. Yeah, and I, when I came and visited your place last month you said one of the first jobs that someone will get will Because the kitchen is full of stress. There's always a lot of chaos and you gotta work with other people when you're working in the kitchen.

Jay Davidson:

Alcoholics and addicts are really smart. That's why we don't have a lot of written rules. I told you there's five cardinal rules, no fighting or threats of violence. No. Sexually acting out, no racism. No using drugs or alcohol, and no stealing. Violate any one of those five in your. Immediately discharged, but the staff develop a behavioral contract where you can complete that behavior contract and come back into the program Now. There, are there a lot of unofficial guidelines and kind of structure guidelines? Yes, absolutely. But the burden is on you to find out what, who, what they are by asking questions. And if you ask the wrong person, get the wrong information, you end up getting consequences. See alcoholics and that create. Issue events that they should get consequences for, but in real life, that consequence for that issue doesn't happen right away. It happens down the road, days, weeks, months, or years away. Then when that consequence does happen, they get pissed off'cause they can't connect it to the original event and they get mad at God and everybody else and they go out and get high

Delbert:

No.

Jay Davidson:

place. You create an incident, immediate consequence. So that you can recognize all of a sudden if I do something wrong, there's a consequence. Now there's no consequence that's gonna hurt you severely at the healing place. It's a safe place to make mistakes. So if you put all the rules in writing, alcohol are smart enough to circumvent all those rules, get all the way through the program, and they're gonna leave the way they came, and then we don't want that. We want them to learn how to change. And the fastest way to see someone's carriage of defects is to put'em under stress. And so the first job in their that's at step four after that, that, here's the idea. They just went through two and a half months of motivation. Trudging back and forth every day, Monday through Friday to that classroom and demonstrating in the rain, in the snow and the heat and all that, that they're motivated to go to any lengths to get their recovery as they were willing to go to any lengths to get their drug. So now they're all hyped up.'cause now I'm gonna go into the program. I got my sponsor and I'm ready to do step four, which is a searching and fearless moral inventory of my wrongs. Which is an inventory of fears and inventory of resentments and inventory of people I've harmed and the inventory of my sexual misbehavior. So that's in itself stressful. And then we're gonna throw'em into a job, which they don't know anything about. It's just in the kitchen now, we'll end up having character defects to work on.

Hess:

Yeah. Just amazing. Just amazing. Okay everybody look into the Healing Place and you have those three campuses. How many beds do you have on Market Street for the men and how many do you have down there for the women and what,

Jay Davidson:

Five, there's 500 beds for men on 10th and market. There are 250 beds at the women's campus. There's a hundred beds down in Campbellsville.

Hess:

Wow. Jay, you are amazing. You're amazing. And. I heard the quote by the astronaut that came back landed that was in the Space Station for 148 days, and she just talked about how wonderful it was that the whole world, all these countries have worked together to be up there and have the space station going on for 25 years, and that's such. to work together. And she said, when you reach your goals, when you take the elevator up to your goal and you've reached your goal, send it back down. You're sending it back down with the people that are following you, taking on responsibility there. And you still have a good hand in it. And just bless you and

Jay Davidson:

Thank you.

Hess:

so many people love you and you've changed so many lives. Thank you so much for talking to us today.

Jay Davidson:

Thank you.

Delbert:

We are so honored that you were with us today. Jay. Thank you so much for your

Jay Davidson:

Anytime.

Hess:

Yeah. So thanks podsters for listening. Please share if you have any questions, and if you have any questions for Jay, just let us know. Peace and love.

Delbert:

We love you friends.

Hess:

Yeah. Take care y'all. Peace and love.

Delbert:

you. Peace and

Jay Davidson:

Bye.